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The United States vs. Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Wednesday Dec. 6th 1871

Prosecution opened

Lt.R.E. Whitman called and sworn - says

Ex. by Mr. Rowell

I resided at Camp Grant in April last. 1st. Lt. in 3rd. U.S. Cavalry--nearly all the time being in command of Post and Quartermaster and Commissary of the Post. I had Apache Indians under my charge about the 30th of April last.

The Indians first came there the latter part of February of the present year. They asked for food and it was given them; they asked permission to bring in others of their band.

Stipulations with them were--to live at the post, suspension of hostilities and willingness to obey all orders given them from time to time.

In February they made their appearance to the number of about five--from that time until April they had gradually increased in number

Between four and five hundred Indians were there between the 25th and 30th of April, comprising men women and children, about the proportion that would naturally exist in their family relations--of men women and children

For a long time I kept account in pencil of the number of men women and children and the proportion was a little more than one man to five of all others. I issued rations--one pound of corn or flour and one pound of meat to each individual each day.

These rations were first issued each day, subsequently once in two days and still later once in three days.

The last issue before the 30th of these rations was on the 28th of April.

At that time the number of Indians was between four and five hundred, have not the exact memorandum but should say 450.

They asked in addition to rations for clothing.

I told them I had no power to issue clothing but that I would provide them with work as far as practicable so that they could buy clothing

I made arrangements with them to furnish hay under the existing contract and they furnished the post about 30,000 pounds of hay.

They were engaged in furnishing hay to the post immediately prior to the 30th of April last.

While using the utmost vigilance to detect these Indians in doing anything contrary to orders, I failed to so detect them. They were living about five miles from Camp Grant--and there living first by my authority and then by the authority of Capt. Frank Stanwood approved by authority direct from the Government.

I received on the morning of the 30th of April a communication from the Comd. Officer of Camp Lowell giving me information that a party had left his place with the avowed intention of making trouble with the Indians at Camp Grant.

I would further state that I heard rumors previously but gave them no credit. I immediately dispatched the interpreters at the Post to inform the Indians and bring in for protection. The Interpreters returned in a very sort time reporting that the Indian Camp was deserted--strewn with dead bodies and the Camp burning. I received the intelligence at 7:30 o'clock on the morning of the 30th of April. I immediately formed a party of such men as could be spared at the post with the post surgeon to go to the Camp with wagons and bring in all the wounded that could be found and further examine the state of the case.

On the 30 of April none but dead bodies were found. I next sent dispatches containing information to the Adjt. General of the Dept. Next morning I formed a party and went myself to the Indian Camp. I found the situation as had been reported. The Camp was entirely deserted or burned. Dead bodies strewn indiscriminately over the ground. The remains of rations clothing etc.

The dead bodies were very much scattered and as it appeared nearly all killed by minie balls. Some of the bodies were easily recognized but the exposure of one day in the sun had changed them very materially.

I should say that I saw about 30 or forty dead bodies, nearly all women and children. I found the body of one old man that I knew. It lay in that portion of the Camp nearest the post. The body lying on the side inclining towards the back. He was shot on the left side of the body in the region of the ribs with a minie ball

I recognized him as a man with whom I had talked more frequently than any other one of the tribe. He was one of those that had been under my charge. He was particularly an influential man. He was one of their principal counselors but not an active chief. I saw the dead bodies of several women that I recognized. The dead bodies of the women were lying in different positions. Generally the bodies were found as they might have fallen when shot running. Some, I'll stately positively two were lying on their backs entirely naked and shot through the breast apparently with pistol balls. One body had three or four arrows sticking in it besides the probable death wound of the musketry.

I also noticed bodies of women, with the skull smashed. My judgment was that women had been first wounded and subsequently killed.

I judged that because in addition to pistol shots or gun-shot wounds their skulls had been broken.

I noticed women shot through the breast apparently with pistol balls because the aperture was smaller than that of a gunshot wound.

I saw the dead bodies of children--perhaps six. They had died apparently by Gunshot wounds.

I do not recollect where the gunshot wounds were. I recollect one child perhaps two years of age with the arm nearly cut off.

Besides the old man previously spoken of the only other dead body of a male was a boy perhaps sixteen years of age

I had seen and examined battle fields before.

The fight presented every appearance of a sudden attack no attempt to escape and no resistance. I have no knowledge of the parties that did this killing.

I saw the dust apparently of a body of men moving up the valley in the direction of Canon del Oro about ten o'clock of the 30th of April, from the post. The men seemed to be coming towards Tucson that made the dust. I should judge it from the dust to be a large party.

McCaffrey x ex.

As nearly as I have already stated the stipulations were food shelter and obedience of orders. They gave at that time no other reasons for coming in but hunger and a desire to live at peace. I wish that to be understood.

They said they were tired of moving from place to place to avoid contact with the soldiers.

They said from being obliged to move about they could not sustain themselves.

They presented the appearance of suffering from want of food. They were understood to be prisoners. They were not requested to give up their arms as they were very poorly supplied with arms. I selected the place for them to stay myself. They were requested to present themselves for inspection at first every day then every two day then every three. At the time of the killing I was rationing them every fourth day I think but I am not sure. I can't state that it was not every fifth day. I kept a pencil memorandum of the men women and children. I also have my ration record in writing. The ration record is not the only record that I have. The Books of the Post at the Adjts Office show the number rationed at all times. There is no further record.

The hay furnished by them was furnished under the contract of Goldberg and co. of this place.

It was necessary to give them immediate compensation for their labor. That hay was paid for as received by the Post trader under an arrangement between him and the contractor. The Post trader was F.L. Austin.

Mr. Austin paid the Indians one cent a pound for the hay they brought in. The contract price of hay $21.00 I think in gold a ton. I know that the contract price was not $25.00 in gold a ton. The contract was for gold. The Indians delivered the hay to me when brought in. I weighed it. I gave them tickets representing the no. of pounds delivered. The hay was first delivered at my suggestion.

The Indians presented the tickets at the store.

In return they received for the most part manta. They also received anything else exposed for sale except those things not intended for sale to the Indians.

The tickets were issued to me by the post trader on payment for the hay: by me delivered to the Indians and by them delivered to the trader. I was then most of the time in command of Camp Grant. I only know that the Indians were to receive such goods as they wanted at the ordinary price of such goods in the country.

To the best of my knowledge they received those goods at fair prices and as low as they were usually sold in the county. I saw that my orders to the post trader were fulfilled. I have seen manta delivered for these tickets at 4.5 x 3 yards for the dollar.

I know from my own observation that the greater proportion of the purchases of the Indians was manta.

I know there was a subletting of the contract made by the contractors with Mr. Austin

In furnishing rations the Indians were ranged in families and the head of the family received the ticket for the whole family. The ticket was presented at the storehouse for flour and corn. The quantity delivered marked on the ticket, handed to the Indian and afterwards presented at the meat house for meat and then delivered up.

When the Indians were reported all in, the count was made on a particular day and the tickets delivered. The hour was not set. The Indians did not remain any longer at the Post than necessary for the count and issue of the rations.

After the count was made and the tickets delivered I superintended the issue of the rations. The tickets were presented by the squaws usually.

I do not know at what date the Indians first commenced to delivery the hay. I should say about the middle of March.

The ration tickets were sometimes delivered to the men, sometimes to the women.

The hay was delivered almost every day.

I do not know how many women there were on the reservation about the 30th of April.

The manta was used by the Indians for clothing.

All of the Indians wore the manta for clothing. I do not recollect the prices of all the other articles for sale.

I stipulated only for the manta--for a good article at the lowest price. The Indians were in and out of the reservation and I frequently went out to their camp.

I heard rumors that the Indians were depredating upon the whites but I believed the rumors were untrue from my own observation.

There are at times wounded Indians at the Camp Grant reservation. I have no knowledge that they were wounded after they came in.

Subsequently to the 30 of April one woman and one girl were brought to the post and treated there.

I have had official correspondence connected with the killing at Camp Grant. I have written letter concerning it which were published. One unofficial letter addressed to Col. Lee has been published.

I do not recollect that I ever made a statement to anybody that I was for Whitman only and that I was bound to win.

I do not recollect ever having said that I stood to these Indians in the relation of a lawyer to his client.

I have no recollection of ever having stated that I was bound only to tell my side of the case.

I never knew a warrant had been issued against any Indian on that reservation.

I was not informed by any one that he had a warrant for any Indian on the reservation.

No officer ever presented a warrant for any Indian on the reservation. I never saw in the possession of an Indian on the reservation arms marked with the Territorial brand. I proposed to the Indians to act as Guides to hunt for hostile Apaches when they first came in. This proposal was made in consequence of their peculiar relation to the government and the explanation of that to them.

The Indians answered they "came in for peace. There are plenty of Indians out that will not come in. We are not at war with those Indians and may be driven out from here."

I had a special talk with them about the killing at San Pedro crossing, because it was directly charged to the Indians at Camp Grant.

They positively declined to join any expedition that might be fitted out against hostile Indians. They made the proposition to join a party against hostile Indians provided that in turn they should be assisted in an expedition upon Sonora.

The military Reservation at Camp Grant is a mile square. On the 30th of April no Indians were living on the Reservation. There were Indians living about 5 miles from the post, in a direction nearly east. They might have been seen from the post with a glass. No guard of soldiers was ever stationed over the Indians.

There were no positive means of knowing whether the Indians were off of the reservation for one two or three days at a time. I have passes for small parties to be absent for mescal over one ration day--say 3 or 4 men, and 15 or 20 women. They went to the mountains east of the San Pedro from 10 to 15 miles. I frequently discussed with them the condition in which they were at peace. I had some difficulty in making them understand that they were at peace with all surrounding them. Their understanding, when they first came in, was that they were at peace only with Camp Grant and not with Arizona. When they first came in I made them understand that the government had no enemies but breakers of law, that if they were protected by the Govt. they should be at peace with all men in the boundaries of the U.S.

Rowell ex.

The Indians called my attention to the fact that at the killing at San Pedro, they were all in at the Reservation.

I found that, at that time there were more Indians on the Reservation than at any other time.

They asked that the captives taken from them at the time of the killing at Camp Grant should be returned to them and they protected. They understood the killing to be entirely foreign to the people of the post and that valley.

A thousand Indians are now present. I have rationed as high at 798 since the killing. Their conduct has been generally good.

McCaffrey ex.

They have been constantly increasing in number since the 1st of Sept.

A number of them being absent about two months, say July and August.

Never heard the Indians say they had heard who killed Mr. McKenny.

(Paper produced.) Lt. Whitman acknowledged it as his production, he knows the Indians to whom he gave it.

Rowell ex.

The Indians complained that while they were at peace they were attacked and children stolen. They could get no redress and therefore they left the reservation.

Mr. Rowell offers to introduce part of a paper with endorsement of Gen. W.T. Sherman to show the status of the Indians at the time of the Camp Grant Massacre.

Mr. McCaffrey

Objects to the introduction of Gen. Sherman's letter unless the whole of it is admitted.

Admitted as a whole.

Rowell

Will bring in his exception tomorrow relative to admitting the whole paper.

Ex. by Mr. Rowell

D.A. Bennett called and sworn.

I know that an armed party of men left Tucson between the 25 and 30 of April 1871.

They proceeded in a N.E. direction. Something over a 100 comprised that party.

They were of all nationalities. There were some Americans, the parties named in the Indictment. There were Mexicans and Papago Indians. They were armed with guns and pistols.

They went on the RillitoRoad. They passed through a pass in the mountains through a canon the name of which I do not know, across the San Pedro River. They proceeded to within 10 or 12 miles of Camp Grant. They were at the San Pedro River the day after leaving Tucson. They arrived at the San Pedro in the morning about daybreak. Went into camp on the San Pedro, stayed that day. Broke camp about 4 or 5 o'clock in the afternoon.

The main party continued on a trail in the direction of Camp Grant. They continued to follow the trail to within 12 or 15 miles of Camp Grant.

They arrived at the last point some time in the night. I left the party there and they went on.

I saw Mr. DeLong, Mr. Lee, Etchell, Foley on the morning of the 30th. DeLong Etchell and Foley took the road leading to Camp Grant. They went as far as Camp Grant. They arrived at Camp Grant about daylight. This party remained at the Post about 2 hours. They then started to return to Tucson. They met the large party in camp about 9 or 10 miles this side of Camp Grant. With the large party I saw those of the defendants I saw the day before. I saw no difference in their appearance. I saw some Indian children with them that were not with them the day before.

I heard some of them detailing the account of the fight with the Indians. They stated they had had the fight in Aryvypa Canon. I heard several statements: my conclusion was that they had killed and taken prisoner in the vicinity of 150 Indians. There was nothing said of any of this party being killed. The party came in the direction of and broke up in Tucson. The party broke up the 2nd or 3rd day after the killing. The party did not come on a direct road to Tucson. I believe Camp Grant to be in the County of Pima.

McCaffrey ex.

The object of the party was to scout after Indians but in no particular direction. The subject had been previously discussed in the party. They desired a large party to successfully cope with the Indians, arguing that smaller parties had been driven back. Meetings had been held previous to the expedition: had seen Military officers there--Cols. Lee and Dunn. I think I saw Col. Lee frequently at those meetings. Col. J.G.C. Lee.

The object of the organization was discussed in his, Col. Lee's, presence.

First struck trail of Indians just this side of the pass in the mountains. Took that trail because Indians had been more frequently seen in that direction, driving off stock from this vicinity. It was only determined to follow any trail they might strike of Indians going out.

I was told by the Indian guide that the signs were fresh. I did not ask particularly. I asked for Indian sights and they said there were such.

Judge's Question.

We were guided to the ultimate destination on this trail.

Rowell

The question of attacking Indians where they could be found was discussed.

The United States vs. Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Thursday December 7th

Mr. Etchells called and sworn says

Rowell

I resided in Tucson in April last. I know of an armed body of men leaving Tucson in April last, in the neighborhood of 100 men. The party was composed of all nationalities American Mexican and Papago Indians.

They went in a N.E. direction from Tucson and proceeded to San Pedro River.

They reached the San Pedro in 24 hours.

They reached the San Pedro about the 28th of April between 8 and 9 in the morning and went into camp.

Remained in camp 6 or 7 hours. The defendants were present in camp on the San Pedro.

So far as I know the names of them I think all of the defendants were with the Party from Tucson to the San Pedro.

The Camp in the San Pedro was broken up about 3 PM. The party proceeded after breaking Camp down the San Pedro River.

The party proceeded down the San Pedro River about 20 or 25 miles to within probably 10 miles of Camp Grant.

The Party arrived within about 10 miles of Camp Grant about 3 A.M.

I next saw the main party about 10 o'clock the same day.

Messrs. DeLong Bennet and Foley and myself proceeded to Camp Grant.

We arrived at Camp Grant shortly after sunrise. The party went to no quarters or building at Camp Grant.

The part I speak of remained at Camp Grant an hour or two. They then went back the road they had come.

On my way back I saw the large party about six or 8 miles from Camp Grant.

I believe it was the same party I had been with the day before.

I noticed additional parties with them Indian children--probably to the number of 10 or 12.

I heard talk of a fight with Indians--a fight at Aryvypa Canyon.

None of the party had been wounded or killed that I know of.

The party next proceeded to Tucson.

I saw some of the Indian children along with the party.

I saw no other disposition of the children except to bring them along.

The party were two days in coming from the San Pedro to Tucson a distance of 50 or 60 miles.

The party were both mounted and on foot.

They were armed with guns.

McCaffrey

Meetings were held in Tucson preparatory to the expedition.

I believe the objects of this expedition were discussed at those meetings.

I saw military officers present at those meetings.

I saw Col. Lee, the quartermaster.

Only recollect seeing Col. Lee present once.

I saw Mr. Rowell present at those meetings.

The objects of the expedition were not discussed in the presence of Col. Lee and Mr. Rowell as I know of. There was a general discussion of Indian troubles.

Means were discussed at those meetings for the stopping of Indian troubles.

A general scouting Party was prepared.

This scouting party was supposed to be composed of Civilians. Am not positive but think it was civilians.

I am not positive that Col. Lee was present when this scouting party was discussed but I think Mr. Rowell was.

Col. Lee or Mr. Rowell made no objection to this search for its objects I recalled.

I do not recollect that the topic was discussed as to whether any Apaches were at peace.

The scouting party first struck the trail in the mountains some 20 miles N.E. from Tucson.

I was not aware that the party left Tucson with the intention of taking that trail.

I know that the intention of the party in leaving was to kill Apache Indians, wherever they found them.

They intended to be guided entirely by indications.

I believe the party followed a particular trail.

I saw Indian signs on this trail.

I saw horse tracks, also moccasin tracks.

To the best of my judgement the tracks were not over 24 hours old.

I think the party continued on that trail.

The Party followed the trail to San Pedro river.

I do not know whether the party that separated followed the road or not.

Rowell

The meetings had been held for 2 or 3 weeks prior to the expedition--probably 3 or 4.

I believe Mr. John Anderson was chairmen at one of those meetings.

I saw Col. Lee at one of those meetings.

I saw Mr. Rowell present during the whole of one of these meetings.

The subject of the Indian question generally was discussed at that meeting. Mr. Rowell was one of the Speakers at that meeting.

I have heard Mr. Rowell speak once publicly in Tucson.

That time was during the session of the Legislature I think.

I think the meeting Mr. Rowell addressed was in January.

The Party discovered enough moccasin tracks to assure us it was an Indian trail.

McCaffrey

I do not recollect the burden of Mr. Rowell's remarks at the meeting I speak of, of the expedition.

Mr. Lee called and sworn says.

I resided in Tucson in April last.

I know of an armed party leaving Tucson about 28th or 29th of April.

I suppose the party numbered about 100 comprising Americans Indians and Mexicans.

The Party proceeded towards the San Pedro River about 35 or 40 miles from Camp Grant.

The Party arrived at that point about 9 o'clock A.M.

The Party at that point went into Camp until afternoon, about 3 or 4 o'clock P.M.

They then went down the San Pedro river towards Grant about 20 or 25 miles.

They then went further down the San Pedro leaving that river they followed an Indian trail to the Rancheria.

The latter was located partly in a canyon (Aryvypa) and partly on a Bluff.

On arriving at the Rancheria the party shot and killed what Indians they could.

Mr. Wm. S. Oury was of that party. I did not see Juan Elias with that party.

There are parties indicated who were not there at all.

A portion of the party were those indicted. After the attack the party proceeded back to the San Pedro.

Mr. DeLong was not of the party at the time of the attack.

I last saw Mr. Bennett Mr. DeLong Mr. Etchells and Foley about 12 miles from the Rancheria. I next saw the above men about 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning abut 10 miles above Camp Grant.

They came up the main road from Camp Grant.

On the occasion of the fight I believe there were some prisoners taken--children.

After getting together the party came towards Tucson.

McCaffrey

Meetings were held at Tucson prior to the expedition.

I was present twice.

The objects of the expedition were discussed.

The objects were to hunt Indians, and get them away from the vicinity around Tucson.

As well as I can remember they were stealing from once to twice a week.

They were stealing from Tucson and its vicinity San Xavier.

At those meetings I do not know whether there were present any U.S. Officers civil or military.

The reason we followed the trail was because the Indians had stolen cattle from San Xavier some days before.

I know the cattle had been driven over that trail by the tracks.

That trail has generally been used by the Indians in driving off stock from about San Xavier.

It was the intention of the party to follow the trail wherever it went to. I was one of the trailers myself. We travelled party by day, partly by night. Part of the time it was moonlight but we could follow the track without that.

It was the custom of the party to go into camp when we could not distinguish the trail easily.

The point on that trail of a previous fight was pointed out where a band of Indians had stolen cattle from San Xavier; been followed and one man killed probably about 10 days before, to the best of my knowledge.

Don't know certainly whether that same trail was followed to the rancheria as a company of Cavalry horses had passed over the trail.

We followed Indian signs to the rancherias.

After leaving the rancheriasaw one Indian at the camp on the San Pedro.

I saw an Indian, that some of the party had killed from a horse that was said to belong to Carrillo. By them I mean some of those indicated.

The owner of the horse was there and claimed it to be his and that it had been stolen.

Jesus Mangia said "that is the horse that was stolen when the cattle were stolen."

This was about 10 or 12 miles from the rancheria.

Rowell

I said it was customary to go into Camp when it was too dark to follow the trail.

About 2/3 of the march was made in the night going out.

McCaffrey

It was the custom to travel until the moonlight disappeared and then encamp.

There was moonlight while we were on the march.

I have been on the march.

I have been on Indian scouts before many times. It is customary to travel mostly at night.

Paper from Head Qtrs of the Army read by Mr. Rowell.

The United States versus Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Dec. 7 Defence opened. McCaffrey addresses the Jury.

Mr. Willard Rice called and sworn says

McCaffrey

I have resided in Prescott and vicinity for the last 6 or 7 years.

I have been connected with Indian scouts from that vicinity.

Rowell

Rowell makes an objection to the line of defence in bringing the present testimony. Evidence admitted by court

McCaffrey

I have been employed with military scouts as guide at Camp Whipple, Camp Date Creek, and Camp Verde for three or four years during that time.

I have been with military parties who have attacked Indians, twelve or fifteen times.

When they are following Indian trails, they travel as circumstances dictate by day or night.

If it is best to travel by night then by night. If best to by day then by day.

Scouting Parties first discovered the situation at the Rancheria and make a sudden attack killing as many as possible without discriminating between men women or children.

They cannot discriminate until the fighting is over.

The proceeding up to the attack is conducted as far as possible with secrecy.

Perhaps in all 200 Indians have been killed in my experience with scouting parties. In one attack 3 captives were taken in another four altogether.

The Indians never wait for an attack as far as my knowledge extends if they know it is coming.

I have known of civilians fitting out an attack upon Indians upon several occasions.

These attack by civilians were not objected to by the Military Authorities.

Rowell

I do not know of any attack ever made by Civilians upon Indians as prisoners or otherwise under Military protection.

All the prisoners I recalled of in my scouting experience were one woman and 3 children.

I never knew of a case of attack upon Indians by civilians while they were under military protection.

With one exception all my scouting has been under the Military as Guide. Rais Mendoza called and sworn

McCaffrey

I know something of an expedition starting from Tucson in April last and killing some Indians in the vicinity of Camp Grant.

In April last I resided in San Xavier.

I know of some cattle and horses having been stolen in the vicinity of San Xavier in April last by the Indians.

The stealing occurred about the middle of April last.

Some persons followed the trail of these thieves and cattle and horses.

Those persons were himself Juan Elias,Jesus Mangia, Tomas Elias, Refugia Pacheco, one man unknown, Wm. Zeckendorf and Ramon Gallego.

They followed the trail the other side of the pass of hot water that is about 18 leagues (54 miles) from Tucson in the direction of Aryvypa.

I mean the fort which is in the Aryvypa.

They caught up with the Indians and killed one Indian.

They recovered 5 horses and cattle.

The Indian killed said nothing but merely screamed.

The 5 horses recovered were some of those that had been stolen.

The Indians were riding the same horses that they had stolen.

I saw 3 Indians mounted on 3 horses leaving from where the party had killed that one Indian.

I know the horses the Indians were riding.

The were known as the horses of Francisco Corrillo.

I had seen the horses in the possession of Francisco Corrillo before that time.

One of the horses afterward got away from the Indians and came back about 8 days after.

I afterward saw one of the other 2 horses.

I saw that horse when they went out on the expedition.

I saw it about 4 miles this side of the rancheria.

An Indian had the horse pulling it along.

He was leading it in the direction of the rancheria. The Indian died, and the horse was brought along.

I was with the party from here to Camp Grant.

I left San Xavier with some Papago who had invited me to go on an expedition against Indians but I knew nothing of the organization here at the time.

I started out with them to follow the trail of the theft before mentioned.

They did follow this trail. They followed the trail to somewhere reaching there in 2 days and one night.

They travelled one day laid over one night and traveled the next day and night.

The last camp before reaching the rancheria was at San Pedro.

They left that camp in the afternoon. The were still on the same trail.

They continued to follow the trail.

They followed the trail all the time until reaching the rancheria.

Upon coming near the rancheria 3 trails divided; each one took the trail he pleased and I took the middle one that lead up on the hill.

While I was following the trail one of my companions cries "look out" and I saw an arrow fly at me and afterwards saw another arrow shot at me.

After the 2 arrows had been shot the firing commenced.

They were there in the immediate vicinity of the Rancheria. I saw who shot the arrow at me.

It was an Apache Indian.

On my return I was in the Rancheria after the attack.

The Indian who fired the arrows at me was on the point of a mountain and others a little below.

This Indian was killed.

He was a big Indian. He was a middle aged man.

I saw nothing but dead in the rancheria.

I saw no property there.

I have lived at San Xavier 4 years.

During that time I know of Horses and cattle having been stolen from myself and neighbors, so often I could not keep count of the times.

The stolen cattle were followed at different times by parties of sometimes five sometimes 10 or 13.

Generally in the mountains of Aryvypa.

Sometimes those parties were successful, sometimes not.

About 4 or 5 times from Tucson and about 6 times from San Xavier cattle have been stolen during the past year.

Sometimes the trail has been followed and sometimes not.

The cattle were always driven to the Aryvypa.

It was after the attack on the rancheria that I saw the Indian leading the horse.

It was the same day of the attack.

I am positive that I identified the horse.

Over a year I had known the horse. I am positive that it was the same horse that was stolen by the Indians and whose trail I had followed 2 weeks before. The attack on the Rancheria was made about sunrise.

Rowell

When we were first discovered by the Indians we were 20 or 30 yards from the rancheria.

When we came upon the Indians I don't know what they were doing: when they heard the noise they were running from the huts. We came up on the rear of the huts.

Saw no more than 2 arrows fired.

The party first attacked where I was on the bluffs then they halloed and the Papagoes attacked below.

I saw about 60 or 70 dead bodies altogether.

I did no go over all the parts of the Camp.

Where we went into Camp where we saw the horse, and the Indian died, it was 3 or 4 miles from the rancheria.

We had a talk with the Indian that was on the horse.

They killed the Indian that was leading the horse.

Mexicans have stolen horses from the vicinity within a year and a half.

It was 10 or 12 days between the time the scout went out after the stolen horses, and the expedition to Camp Grant.

In the expedition that went to Camp Grant there were over 100 men.

All the trails of cattle stolen during the last year have led towards the Aryvypa. I can only remember one stealing during the months of February March and April.

I saw one captive Indian.

At the time the arrows were fired there were about 4 men near me.

From the time we left the river until we reached the Camp sometimes I was ahead and sometimes behind.

Saw no Americans ahead.

I joined the expedition on the Rillito. The expedition was out five days from Tucson and back again.

The Party came directly back to Tucson.

McCaffrey

I saw one gun shot by the Indians, in addition to the 2 arrows. Saw the gun.

It was a carbine.

I have been on Scouts before.

After having made an attack it is customary to immediately return generally being in small parties.

The party that went out had no rations. Francisco Carrillo called and sworn says

Rowell

I know the obligations of and oath--to say the truth.

There is punishment for not speaking the truth.

McCaffrey

In April last I lived at Punta de Agua.

At that time I had there cattle and horses.

From San Xavier, Punta de Agua is about 2 or 3 miles.

In April last property was stolen from me, namely, sixteen horses; I followed them: with me was Tomas Elias, Rias Mendoza, Jesus Mangia, Ramon Gallego, and Wm Zeckendorf.

We followed the trail toward Camp Grant. I went with the party four leagues from here. Did not go on; my horse gave out. The Party that did go on brought back 5 horses. I went with a large party that started out the latter part of April.

The took the same trail as the stolen horses.

They followed that trail till dark and then followed the direction the trail had been leading. They went on to the rancheria, could not tell whether the trail terminated at the rancheria.

At the rancheria the party attacked the Indians about 8 o'clock of the morning.

The sun was not very high at the time I got there.

The fighting was not over when I got there. I was at the rancheria when the fighting was over. I saw some things in the rancheria, goods, lead and ammunition, bows and clothing.

The ammunition was for needle guns. I saw various lots of ammunition; bags of it in several huts. I saw about 200 rounds after leaving the rancheria. I was still with the party: one came to Tucson.

We met Apaches after leaving the rancheria. Only one Apache had anything. One had a gun, one had a horse, going towards the rancheria. They were about 3 miles from the rancheria when we met them. The horse was mine.

The horse was in my possession the 11th of April.

Within the year previous to the last of April, horses have been stolen from me almost continually.

During that time about fifty horses and mules, and one hundred head of cattle have been stolen from me.

I follow the trail of stolen animals whenever it is fresh.

My neighbors usually accompany me.

We seldom recover the stolen property.

Within that length of time I know of no stock having been recovered by the military.

Rowell

Between the 1st of February and the 30th of April of the present year stock has been stolen about ten times from me.

Cannot recollect how many cattle I have lost during that time.

During that time I have lost 8 horses.

The Party killed the 2 Indians they met coming back from the rancheria.

My name is Francisco Carrillo.

I do not know of any stock having been stolen by Mexicans during the last year.

John T. Smith called and sworn says

McCaffrey

I have resided 9 miles south of Tubac at Bosque Ranch during the last year.

Mr. Wooster lived 1 1/2 miles north of my place.

Mr. Wooster was killed the 21st day of March last.

Received the information of his death at Tubac from her brother.

Took a load of men up to Wooster's place with me. I found the body of Mr. Wooster. We found the body of Mr. Wooster at that time and subsequently that of his wife.

We found his body in the corral back office of his house. The body had been stripped.

We found the body of his wife in the woods about 300 yards from there.

Her body was stripped and lanced in 3 places and dead.

Guns ammunition clothing everything was taken from the place and part of the shed over the stable was burned.

No clothing was left whatever.

Had seen Mr. Wooster frequently. Cannot describe his ordinary clothing.

Noticed particularly a pair of moccasins that he wore. They are the sort of shoe commonly called Tegua.

They were very heavy of smoked tanned skin.

The country where I have resided has been very dangerous during the last 3 years. Particularly during the last year.

I am a farmer. Not safe to be out on farm without arms.

Been six attacks by Indians the last 18 months generally successful except in one instance and partly so in that.

During those attacks they the Indians have killed Messrs. Blanchard Sanders and Wooster and his wife also a child of Mr. Kitchen's wife and wounded Joseph King.

The result of this condition of affairs has been almost total depopulation of the country.

It is the most fertile portion of Southern Arizona.

About 3 years ago some 300 or 400 people there now only about 25. Mostly transient.

The town of Tubac is wholly depopulated.

Rowell

I reside about sixty miles south of here. In my neighborhood are Cochise's and the Aryvypa Indians. Pinal and Aryvypa Indians are the same.

The Indians killed Blanchard and Sanders the 24th of May. Shortly afterward the child of Mrs. Kitchen and many robberies have been committed at the same time.

The United States vs. Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Friday Dec. 8th 1871

Prosecution opened

Wm. Zeckendorf called and sworn

I resided in April last at Tucson. I know of some horses and cattle being stolen on the 12th of April last from San Xavier by the Apaches. The trail was followed by Mexicans and myself.

The trail led in a N.E. direction from here towards San Pedro river: followed the trail about 50 miles; caught up with the stolen horses and cattle and killed one indian.

With me were Juan Elias, Tomas Elias, Jesus Mangia, Refugio Pecheco, Ramon Gallego, Rias Mendoza and I think 2 or 3 others whose names I don't know.

There were 4 Indians altogether. 3 escaped. Don't know how, whether on foot or mounted.

I saw the Indian that was killed noticed the body particularly. There was 1 particular mark that drew my attention to the body. He had one of his front teeth gone and noticing closely, as he was a very young Indian, I thought it was knocked out by a ball but saw it was not so, upon examination.

Prior to the last of April of the present year I attended several meetings at Tucson having in view an expedition against Indians. At those meetings the subjects discussed were the means of protecting ourselves against Indians. At one meeting it was proposed to call on General Stoneman. Then it was proposed to organize a party of civilians to go on a general Indian campaign.

At some of those meetings I have seen officers but don't remember who they were. I do not recollect having seen Mr. Rowell and did see Col. Lee present at one of those meetings.

Judge Titus

The distance from here (Tucson) to Camp Grant is fifty-five miles: from San Xavier to Camp Grant 65 miles.

Tucson lies between San Xavier and Camp Grant. There is a trail from San Xavier to Camp Grant without going through Tucson.

By trail I mean Bridle Road; an Indian Road.

Rowell

Where we overtook the Indian it was fifty miles from San Xavier.

G. Oury ex-during absence of McCaffrey

Joseph Felman called and sworn.

On the 30th of April last I was living about 3 miles above Camp Grant. I have resided at Camp Grant 3 years.

I was residing at Camp Grant when an attack was made upon the Indians in that vicinity.

I am well acquainted with the character of those Indians. I was personally acquainted with many of them. Just previous to the attack Indians were in the habit of leaving the Indian Camp near Camp Grant.

McCaffrey relieves Mr. G. Oury

I know of some of the Indians having been absent.

I know they were absent; one party left there about the 5th or 6th of April last.

They were absent about 8 days. I know when they returned. I noticed the Indians when they returned. I saw one Indian with his hair cut off--the Indians sign of mourning. I speak the Apache language.

I talked with these Indians after they returned. I missed one of the Indians. I asked one where was his brother. Says he "don't say nothing about it. I have lost my brother." I asked him how he came to lose his brother. He says he went on a campaign near Tucson or San Xavier to bring in some stock, that he was followed by the people here of Tucson and they killed this brother of mine.

I had other conversation at different times with the Indians.

The Indian that was killed was behind, he was the only one killed. They lost some of the stock they had with them but brought 2 horses into camp; one I am sure. I was acquainted with the missing Indian; had seen him frequently, he was an Indian, I should judge, of 18 or 20 years of age. His hair had been cropped sometime previous to that; had one tooth out in front, upper tooth.

That was a distinguishing mark to me.

I had known him at Camp Goodwin.

Had known his brother for the same length of time.

I have never seen the missing Indian since. I have had conversation with the Indians at Camp Grant relative to other expeditions made by them. One, a petty chief, Taccan, had told me that he had been frequently on expeditions, one at Tres Alamos, one at the Sonoita, and at another attack which they made on the Camp Grant road.

They stated how they killed Wooster at Sonoita; shot him in the door: did not know the woman was inside but finally found her and took her out in the mesquite and killed her there.

I know an Indian at Camp Grant called Eskiminzin, a chief. Had conversation with him previous to the last of April. He stated that he was with the party that killed Wooster. I also talked with Carse, a chief. He was interested in all the business.

I mean the killing. He told me that he was accustomed to lead parties from Camp Grant on stealing and murdering expeditions, was never there at Camp Grant more than 2 days at a time. This remark applies to the Indians who were at Camp Grant prior to the last of April and at that time also.

I asked Eskiminzin whether he had killed Mr. McKenney; he said he had. He says "I started for your place to kill you but God told me he was a friend of yours and I did not go.

I then went down below and with these hands and this lance I killed an American down below." I understood him to mean Mr. McKenney. He had been talking about McKenney; just before. He said "I was seeking revenge and was going to take it out on you but God told me you were a friend and not to do it."

I was not at Camp Grant in October last when Mr. Franklin deputy U.S. Marshall went there. I went there 2 days afterwards. When I arrived there I saw Eskiminzin. I stayed there from the 1st of November to the 14 and Eskiminzin was there all that time.

Carse, Eskiminzin and Taccan spoke of the affair at Tres Alamos.

They said they had killed one man first and then ambushed the others following, and they (the Indians) got away with no one hurt. About 4 white men were killed they told me. They told me this about 3 months ago.

These 3 Indians spoken of first came into the Camp Grant reservation about the latter part of February last.

I have had conversations with the Indians relative to the condition of peace in which they stood. They have told me their understanding of the conditions of Peace.

They were to remain on the reservations; to be rationed and clothed if possible, and the men to be peaceable and not to go out to war, and the Government would protect them on the reservation.

That whenever they wished to leave the reservation they were to get leave of absence, which they got from time to time from 1 to 7 days in different parties. I had good opportunities of observing the Indians as to how they conducted themselves because I was living close to them and frequently some of them stayed with me at night.

I saw property with the Indians then that I recognized, namely arms, horses, mules, clothes and saddles. The arms were improved needle guns stamped A.T.

I saw 3 stamped guns stamped on the breach. I called the attention of Lt. Calhoun and I think that of Mr. Austin to the fact of these guns being in the possession of these Indians.

I saw the 3 stamped guns with the Indians between the 1 and 14 of last November.

I saw in the possession of these Indians a mare belonging to the Mail Rider who was killed near Tucson. She had on a brand Mr. Contzen gave me. One government horse branded U.S. "K" Troop 1st Cavalry. One American mule owned by Mr. Speedy now. One grey mare since dead been bought by a Mexican and taken away from him by someone at Tucson. I saw in the possession of the Indians at Camp Grant a blanket answering the description of the one taken from the mail rider who was killed. It was a dark colored wool blanket with the red and black stripes mixed.

I never saw a similar blanket. The Indians had some women's clothes. I saw none I recognized.

The saddle I saw was a McClellan saddle taken from man that was killed on an expedition with Governor Safford.

The man's name was David Nunes.

The saddle is now as far as I know in the possession of a lame Indian at Camp Grant. I saw the last article between the 10 of October and the 14th of November last.

Rowell

These articles were all seen since the 30th of April last--excepting the arms.

I had the conversation with Carse before the 30th of April last.

It was soon after the stealing of the stock at San Xavier, and the killing of the Indian. He had been on and off the reservation since the 1st of February last.

He had been absent off and on for from 5 to 15 days at a time. I think it was in March or April last that Mr. Wooster was killed.

It was Carse and Taccan that were talking to me about the killing of Wooster.

Taccan was on the reservation before and after the killing of Mr. Wooster.

Eskiminzin was the first male Indian that came into the reservation in February last.

I know the blanket belonged to the Mail Rider from the description given me by his friends.

I saw the blanket first between the 10 and the last of October. That was also the last I saw it and it is out there now as far as I know.

I understood from the Indian that the killing of McKenney was out of revenge.

The Indian had 2 wives killed and one child in the Grant Affair. The Indians in revenge repay life for life 10 to one.

I did not notify the Commanding Officer of Camp Grant Col. Stanwood of the presence of Eskiminzin in November last.

I have not made Camp Grant my home since the 14th of November last.

The affair at Tres Alamos occurred early in the year.

I had the conversation with Carse, Taccan and Eskiminzin prior to the 30th of April last.

The Indians in conversation said they did not like to stay at Camp Grant to be bound down.

They wanted to get out to the mountains to hunt and make mescal.

They would get leave of absence in numbers from 1 to 20 sometimes the whole tribe to the number of 50 or 60. Taccan used to take his whole tribe, most every month. He with his whole tribe went out in February then again in March last. He and his tribe also went between the 1 and 14 of November--on leave at all times excepting the last.

I know not of any persons claiming any of the things I saw in the possession of the Indians. From the Commanding Officer I know of no persons reporting any of the depredations committed by the Indians to the Commanding Officer of Camp Grant.

I have known the Indian who was in possession of the saddle I speak of for six years.

It is customary for the Indians to sometimes trade the stolen property in their possession with each other: if it is good property they do not dispose of it very often. They generally keep it if it is good property. They value most a good rifle, horses, mules, saddle and blankets. Rifles best. Could not buy a good rifle from them at any money.

I have been in good employ at Camp Grant for 2 years and six months as a good blacksmith.

Judge

Eskiminzin is a chief of the Pinal tribe.

McCaffrey

About 50 persons compose Eskiminzin's tribe, men, women and children.

Juror

The parties leaving the camp on leave are permitted to take their arms with them. They have never been deprived of their arms at any time.

I have been familiar with the conditions of prisoners of war for 16 years.

It is always the practice of Government to deprive prisoners of war of their arms.

Juror

I have served in the U.S. Army from a private up to 1st Lieutenant.

The rancheria was in no particular place, cannot keep them in any one place more than 2 or 3 days at a time.

The rancheria attacked on the 30th of April was between 4 and 5 miles from the flag staff at the post.

Juror

Never knew of any troops guarding these Indians with the exception of 3 put in the guard house.

McCaffrey

Hat produced. I know it. The hat has been at mine or Mr. Austin's ranch probably a hundred times and was owned by an old Indian.

The Indian who owned the hat has been off and on the reservation ever since February.

Rowell

That is not the only hat of that description among the Indians, but I have frequently seen the hat before and I know it because the Indian used to come to my house to pack flour in it.

I saw it last at Camp Grant last August.

I saw it last here in Tucson when it was brought here a month or five weeks ago.

Lt. Ross called and sworn.

I am 2nd Lt. 21st Infantry and present aide de camp to General Crook.

I reported for duty at Camp Crittenden in August 1869 and have been there till the 30th of June of the present year.

I know of an Indian attack in that vicinity last spring. Mr. Hughes' rancheria attacked about 17th of March last. Mr. Hughes's ranch is about 2 miles from Camp Crittenden.

We were promptly notified of the attack and I at once went down with 10 men, half of the command.

At Mr. Hughes' Ranch we found that Mr. Cook, an employee of Mr. Hughes, had been killed and everything taken out of the house that could be carried and the rest destroyed so as to render it of no further use.

We found Mr. Cook's body filled with arrows after evidently having been killed with gunshot wound. One arrow head was left in the wrist but could not find any arrows. They had all been taken out. We made search next day and found one arrow; evidently one that they had overlooked driven in the ploughed ground at the edge of a field. This arrow is now at Camp Crittenden and experts have told me it is an arrow belonging to the tribe of Indians on the Reservation at Camp Grant. I had the trail of the Indians followed for 4 or 5 miles--far enough to know it was heading towards the Santa Cruz. Four days before the killing of Mr. Wooster, they were heading towards his place.

I have seen other places where Indians have made attack.

Never before saw a place where they had taken off all the arrows.

My opinion as to their carrying off their arrows was that they wished to avoid identification. I have been twice at every post in the territory and don't think it safe to travel anywhere without a large party.

At no time since I have been here has it been safe to travel without a large party--in my opinion.

It has been the custom for military authorities to encourage expeditions against Indians by citizens.

There are orders on file from different bureaus of the war department of the government to provide citizen parties against Indians with arms, ammunition and subsistence. There is also a similar order from Gen. Stoneman. Under that order I fed the entire command of Gov. where he went on an Indian scout in the summer of last year.

I have noticed the farmers at work on their ranches, in different parts of the Territory.

They always have their arms on their person at work or intend to have them in reach for fear of Indians.

Rowell

It is not customary to fit out parties to attack friendly Indians.

It is not customary to fit out parties either citizens or military against Indians who are claimed to be under military protection and friendly.

McCaffrey

James Cornelius called and sworn says:

I was at Camp Grant on the 20 or 21 of September last.

I with others was there prospecting for minerals.

We made known our presence there to the commanding officer of the post.

He told us he would have to escort us off of the reservation.

Believe the commanding officer was Capt. Stanwood.

He told our party how far the reservation extended. I did not hear him.

Twenty men, soldiers, went with us to escort us off. I suppose we went with them some 16 or 18 miles in a northerly direction from Camp Grant. Did not reach the Gila River.

We camped out about nine miles north from Camp Grant the first day out on a small stream, don't know the name.

At that point in the night the Indians fired into us. Two arrows were found. The soldiers were with us at that time; they fired at the soldiers.

Saw no Indians at the time; it was too dark; saw some in the morning at day light--some 3 or 4 on the mountain. They built up a fire and hollered at us.

We saw no more of the Indians at that place, 6 or 7 miles further on we saw one Indian. He came on right over the mountain and disappeared.

That was on the South Side of the Gila.

We returned to Camp Grant and reported what had occurred to the camp officer. He asked if we returned the fire.

I told him we did not.

I told him we were on the reservation.

I was on a prospecting tour with Gov. Safford.

Have seen the man that was killed with that Safford's party. The horse of the man was seen with the Indians.

I have not seen the horse in the hands of the Indians.

Rowell

I understood Capt. Stanwood was in Command of Camp Grant at the time we were fired onto.

McCaffrey

Mauricio Castro called and sworn.

Hat produced.

I know that hat. First saw it on the head of a chief they were following on the 24 or 25 of September.

The Indians had stolen cattle from San Xavier and ranch of Guadeloupe Seis: I followed on their trail--followed to near the Canada del Oro about 10 leagues.

They recovered six head of cattle. They had stolen altogether about 24 head. Saw Indian tracks on the trail. Found the hat where we first caught up with the Indians when they had killed a beef.

Rowell

Where the cattle had been killed was leading to Camp Grant. The balance of the cattle appeared to follow on the same trail.

Where we left the trail was about 18 miles from Camp Grant.

Did not go to Camp Grant and notify the camp officer of the theft.

McCaffrey

Jose Ma Yesques called and sworn.

I have lived with the Apache Indians for 19 years and 6 months and some days.

The Indians captured me at 6 years of age and killed my father. I have been a guide for the last 2 years.

Have resided in Tucson during that time.

Have been a guide at Camp Grant during that time.

Was guide there last year when Col. Green was at Camp Grant. This year have been with General Crook.

Have been at Camp Grant twice during this year.

Was there in July the first time. The 2nd time in November.

Am acquainted with all the grown Indians on the reservation at Camp Grant.

I have had much conversation with those Indians at Camp Grant.

They have talked with me of expeditions they have been on against the whites.

They were telling me about the mare. I asked them where they got it from.

They said they got it from Sonora. A friend told me not to buy it as it was stolen from Tucson.

This friend was an Indian, but they did not want to tell me the truth.

After further inquiry where the mare came from they at last told me it came from a man from Sonora. He had a bag with papers and they were smoking the paper.

They offered to trade the mare for 40 yards of manta and 20 cartridges.

I did not give them any thing for the mare and afterward came to Tucson.

I was hunting with these men below the ford on Saturday evening, about 3 miles below the ford.

I was working with Don Frederico (Austin) about 8 or 9 days before the killing and had been there some time.

They had made peace before I came in from the Gila to work for Mr. Austin--about a month and day before.

Had talk with Indians who were in there at the time. They said they were very afraid of the people because they had killed a man and woman in the kitchen. They the Indians said they had killed the woman in the woods. This killing was above Tubac.

I saw one of the Indians who was shot in the arm.

I saw the wound. The wound seemed to be by a gun.

The Indians said some of them came home and 5 went on the mountains back of Tubac

I know something of the arms the Indians had. They had 5 needle guns. They proposed selling one and I wouldn't buy it. They had one double barreled shot gun and some others.

They also had guns commonly known as Mississippi yagers. Arrows they have many. They always carry their arrows with them. They all have and bring arms. They say that because their women were killed they always carry their arms. At first they did not carry their arms-- only a few of them.

They complained that the ration was not sufficient was the cause of their leaving the reservation. Some of them went without license away from the post.

I have seen mules in the possession of the Indians. Know some of the mules. Have seen a big mule on which Eskiminzin was riding which is now in Tucson.

Speedy has the mule.

Some of them can be at peace but they want another commanding officer as they think that the present commanding officer sold them.

They think they are at peace here but not with Sonora. Some said they were not at peace with any place. Other said they were at peace on one place but not with another.

Some went out for cattle and the citizens caught up with them and killed one.

Wm. S. Oury interrupts

I know the Indian that was killed and his brother also well. The Indian that was killed had a tooth out in front.

I think above.

The brother of the Indian that was killed told me of the killing of his brother. Some of the Indians told me of some of their number having attacked a train beyond the station at the Cienega and that they had made a great mistake thinking there was no one with the train but teamsters. That there were soldiers in the wagons and in the fight they the Indians had lost 5 of their number among them 2 petty chiefs.

I think this occurred in July.

Some of the Indians tell one thing, some another, sometimes untruth and you have to do the same with them.

Rowell

The last time I went to Camp Grant was in October last.

I remained there 2 days only.

The next time before that I was there, was in June.

The time I was there before June was in March.

In March was the first time I was in Camp Grant.

In March I remained in Camp Grant about a month.

I June I remained at Camp Grant from the 1st to the 23rd of June. From there I came to Tucson on the 24th of June.

From Tucson I went then with General Crook.

In October I had the talk with the Indians with the tooth out.

It was in June when I had the talk with the Indians about the killing of the man and woman.

In October I talked with them about their condition of peace in which they were.

Saw the guns all the three times I was there.

I saw the mule there in October. I am 33 years old past.

I was taken prisoner at the age of about 6 years.

It is now 6 or 7 years since I escaped at Camp Goodwin from bondage.

First they took me prisoner. Afterwards I lived with them voluntarily. I was taken by and lived with the Cerro Blanco Indians.

The Indians I lived with are not the same Indians as those at Camp Grant.

McCaffrey

Andres Ochoa called and sworn.

Boots produced.

I know them--first saw them in the Indian Reservation at Aryvypa about the 1st of May. The boots were in the rancheria where the Indians had been killed immediately after the fight.

Found the boots on the side of the hill just above the rancheria--they have been in my possession ever since.

McCaffrey

Josh T. Smith recalled.

Have seen the boots before.

Think to the best of my knowledge they were Mr. Wooster's, as the description answers exactly--have seen many matching pairs. Never saw another pair that looked so much like Mr. Wooster's as these.

Rowell

Think the boots have been half-soled. Last time I saw them in the possession of Mr. Wooster had leather soles. I think they were bullet holes in the boots when I first saw them--I think in the legs.

McCaffrey

Think the boots were made of an Indian-tanned skin. Mr. Wooster informed me that he had bought it of an Indian I think.

McCaffrey

Wm. Rainey called and sworn

Resided at Camp Grant during the last year.

Have seen the Indians there but not noticed particularly.

I saw a pistol, rifle and saddle in their possession that I had loaned to a man who was killed with Gov. Safford. His name was Gallego Nunes.

About a month after the death of the man I saw the articles.

The gun belonged to me.

Had a mark on it: was loaned to the man and with him when he was killed.

The saddle used to be mine, too. I had sold it to Nunes.

I identified the pistol by the holster.

I know that was the holster he had with him.

I have seen an Indian there have a large mule.

I think it was Eskiminzin.

Rowell

These Indians were Pinal Indians that had the above articles.

They were Indians that had newly come in.

Some of the Indians had been in there some months.

I have no positive knowledge when the Indians came in who had the arms, etc.

McCaffrey

Mr. Speedy called and sworn.

Have now in my possession a large American mule.

Got it at Camp Grant.

Traded for it.

Thought when I first saw it I knew it, now I am positive I know it.

Had seen the mule with Leopoldo Carrillo, bringing it with another to Tucson coming from the Gila.

Identified it by general appearance and thought I had seen the brand before.

The mule is now in my corral.

Juror

Traded with the butcher for the mule.

McCaffrey

W. A. Smith called and sworn.

I resided at Cienega Station 30 miles east of here. Have resided there a little over 3 years.

Have been attacked by Indians there; general attack made there about the tenth of August last year.

The attack was from about 8 o'clock in the morning until sundown. Indians did not keep up a regular fire all that time.

Should judge there were about 60 Indians there.

There were two of our men killed: one of them the mail rider. Horse belonging to the mail company taken and considerable property destroyed together with the garden crop.

Never been considered safe to travel either direction from my place while I have been there.

Nothing less than 20 men well armed would be safe to travel with.

Generally travel in the night. Mail travels in the night on account of hostile Apache Indians.

Rowell

The last attack made near Cienega Station was bout 8 miles from there, in June of the present year.

There were more attacks in 1870 than in 1871.

It is not safe for any number of men to travel in my vicinity.

McCaffrey

Juan Borquez called and sworn

During the last year I have lived on the Rillito.

Am a farmer.

Cattle and horses have been stolen from that vicinity during the last year.

Where I reside is in an easterly direction from Tucson about 6 miles from here.

The trail of the stolen property has sometimes been followed. I have followed them twice within the last year.

We have been compelled to turn back because the animals were tired out.

The trails were toward the north.

In that vicinity Indian signs are frequently seen.

Moccasin tracks.

The Indians have been seen around there all the time I have lived there.

They have not been more frequent this year than last--less frequent.

Judge

The Rillito from Tucson is 6 miles east.

The Indians I saw were Apaches.

They came from the north and went away toward the north.

Rowell

They have never complained to the commander of Camp Grant of this depredation.

McCaffrey

Juan Tomas called and sworn

During the last year have resided on the Rillito.

I live in the nieghborhood--about 700 yards from Juan Borquez.

Cattle and horses have been stolen from there in the last year.

On the 3rd of July of the last year the Indians stole 3 yoke of cattle and 2 yoke in September of last year.

One yoke stolen in February of this year from him.

I do not know of any others losing cattle. The Indians ran a mare into his place in April of the present year and left in the direction of San Xavier.

During the present year have seen Indian identification in my vicinity.

In August the Indians tried to get a yoke of cattle of mine but did not succeed. Took some melons.

The Indians who took the yoke of cattle from me in February of this year went in the direction of the Canon del Oro.

The United States vs. Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Saturday Dec. 9th 1871

Defense opened

Joseph Felman recalled

Ex. Mr. McCaffrey

I was at Camp Grant at the 30th of April last.

The Biggest portion of the Bucks (male Indians) were absent from the rancheria on the 30th of April--12 or 14 of them only being present.

I know from my own observation that the greater portion of these Indians were absent.

Carse told me his cartridges were not good.

That if his cartridges had been good and all the bucks there they would have killed a good many of them (whites).

The absent Indians did not return until the 9th or 12th of May.

Did know some of the horses in Lt. Cushing's command. Frequently shod some of them at Camp Grant.

The horses formerly belonged to "K" Troop 1st Cavalry to Lt. Cushing.

Have seen one of these horses in the possession of Indians at the Indian camp at Camp Grant and the horse is there still. The horse was offered for sale to me between the 1st and 14th of November last by one of the Indians at Camp Grant. Eskiminzin was the Indian's name.

I first saw the horse in October about the 1st, in the possession of those Indians.

Eskiminzin was not one of the Indians at Camp Grant before the 30 of April. He came in since.

I have been frequently on scouts against Indians during the time I was in the U.S. Service and since. The ordinary mode of all the Indians is to attack them at daybreak if possible. Generally track them to the rancheria and wait for morning to take them by surprise. The object generally in the attack is to destroy the Indians and take prisoners I presume. No attempt is ordinarily made to take prisoners before the fight is finally ended.

In these attacks can't distinguish the females from males; all look and dress alike. Sometimes the Indians stand to make a fight; after the fight is over they generally get in the mountains to fire.

Rowell

Rations were probably issued two days prior to the 30 of April last. Good many Indians but most all females on that ration day.

Should judge there were about 20 bucks.

I had seen as many as 100 bucks there previously on ration days. I should think there were about 200 Indians altogether on the last ration day prior to the 30 of April last.

I am as positive about the last statement as I was about my previous statements as to numbers.

The horse that I saw with the Indians I know to be one of the 14 spoken of as turned over to Lt.Cushing from K Troop 1st Cavalry.

There might have been one buck to five Indians on last ration day.

Juror

I have never seen any soldiers placed over the Indians as guards.

McCaffrey

There was no line laid out as boundaries of the limits of Indians at Camp Grant. They were in possession of their arms all the time. These Indians were frequently at the citizen ranches around so much so as to be troublesome.

Jose Ma Yesques recalled

McCaffrey

I have heard from the Indians relative to the killing of Lt. Cushing at Camp Apache the Indians told me that they had gone over to the Huachuca Mountains and that there they had ambushed a party of soldiers and killed their Captain. The Indians described the place of the attack at a mountain this side of Babacomari.

I understand the relation of the Apaches with the Papagoes, from conversations with them. The Apaches understand that they are always at war with the Papagoes and want no peace with them.

The Apaches under no circumstance would agree to any peace with the Papagoes.

Rowell

I last had talk with the Apaches concerning peace or war on the 4th day of October of the year at Cerro Blanco--Camp Apache.

Guillermo Telles called and sworn.

McCaffrey

I live at Tucson born and raised here.

I am a farmer.

With the last year in the vicinity of San Xavier the Apache have made two attacks on the Papagoes that I know of. At the present time the Papagoes expect attacks from the Apaches at any time.

Rowell

The attacks in the vicinity of San Xavier were upon property.

Leopoldo Carrillo called and sworn.

McCaffrey

I have had animals stolen from me by Indians had some so stolen about August the last.

The animals stolen were about 12 head of cattle the first time from the 1st to the 15th of August and that time I found the Indians had taken some of my mules also. Followed them to the other side of the Point of Mountain.

All around the mountain.

The Point of Mountain is about 17 miles from here on the Yuma road.

When we abandoned the trail it led toward Camp Grant.

We abandoned the trail because we had not enough to follow. We were only 8 men. I was one of the party myself.

Some of the stolen animals were marked brand on the side--that was 2 large mules were so branded.

Have since seen one of these mules spoken of. I saw it in the possession of Mr. Speedy once and yesterday again.

Don't remember when I first saw it in the possession of Mr. Speedy: it was when we went to Camp Grant he bought the mule back, over 40 days ago. He called my attention to his having the mule.

I demanded the mule from him. He did not give it up to me. He said he bought it from the Indians at Camp Grant and paid too much to lose it. The matter was settled by compromise.

Have been accustomed to follow the trail of Indians and stolen cattle from here and San Xavier: all the time I follow in the direction of Camp Grant. I have stock the other side of San Xavier in the vicinity of the Papago Indians. The Papagoes keep stock in the same vicinity.

Rowell

The time I followed the Indians to the Point of Mountain there were about 8 Indians we were in pursuit of.

Never went to Camp Grant and informed the commanding officer of these depredations.

These animals were stolen about 3 miles west of this town. There were 2 Indians mounted and 6 on foot.

Did not get near enough to see them.

Capt.Frank Stanwood called and sworn.

McCaffrey

I am Captain of the 3rd U.S Cavalry. Have been recently in command of Camp Grant.

There are records kept at the Post of the number of Indians supposed to be in that vicinity.

Have been in command there since the 1st of April till now excepting when on scout.

While I was in command some considerable number of Indians were absent at times. At one ration day previous to the 30th of April there were absent perhaps 75 Indians men women and children and they came in within a day or two afterword.

At the massacre they were all out. Afterward about 150 came back and then afterward again went out: they all stayed out until the Colyer Party came in and flags of truce were sent out to try and bring them in.

After that the Indians commenced coming in and now about 800 are in. They have not since then been off in large parties that I know of.

Since Mr. Colyer's visit I do not know of many parties of any size being absent, though parties of considerable number might be gone without our knowledge.

When I first went to the Post they were encamped near the post and I had them moved up to the first water on the Aryvypa about 5 miles from the post.

No line of limits is designated for them. They were expected to be rationed every 3 days. Lt. Whitman was particularly in charge of them: Mr. Whitman particularly attended to issuing rations to them; it was his duty as acting Commissary.

The Indians in that vicinity are located about 2 miles below the post and most all of them within 2 1/2 miles of the Post and a small portion within 4 or 5 miles of the Post. The limits of the reservation are 2000 acres.

The post is about in the centre of the 2000 acres. There is a map of the reservation at the Post. Have never looked for any marks to define the reservation. Has never been endeavored to keep the Indians in the exact limits. Had instructions from General Stoneman to camp them near there wherever I saw fit.

An order was made by Mr. Colyer setting apart a portion of land as an Indian reservation. From Camp Grant due north to the Gila is about 20 miles to reach the boundary of the reservation.

I know the Gila can be reached in about 15 miles in a N.W direction by going down the valley of the San Pedro.

The limits of the reservation were designated by Colyer when he was there.

Rowell

The Indians first commenced to come into Camp Grant about the 1st of March. From the time I came there the numbers coming in gradually increased while I was there and up to April 21st. The Indians seemed to be friendly they said they were tired of fighting and wanted to come in. I don't think while I was there prior to the Massacre that any of the Indians at Camp Grant went out on hostile scouts.

It is the duty of the commander of the post to inspect the Indians counting them every 3 days prior to 30th of April and every five days since.

I have superintended most of the counting of these Indians. Some days other duties rendered it impossible and then I might have been absent.

Those present at one counting were present at the next.

I have been absent from 3 months to 3 1/2 months from the post since he 30th of April on Indian scouts; Have followed Indian trails on three scouts. Have never followed any trails from the point of attack.

I killed some Indians about 25 miles west of Camp Apache.

While out on these scouts I never saw anybody that led me to believe that the Indians I had left at Camp Grant were out depredating.

After the massacre in April about 150 came in and stayed a month and after that all the Indians went out and were hostile up to the time that by orders of the war dept. a flag of truce was sent to them and then they commenced coming in.

On my counts I have seen no indications that these Indians who came in were out on depredations.

I know a petty Indian chief named Carse. He is not a chief of much influence.

I think he was there when I came there. Can't tell whether he was there continuously up to the 24 of April last. Don't recollect whether he was there every ration day.

No complaints have been made to me by the citizens of depredations.

Juror

Eskiminzin was not present at all the inspections or ration calls.

Rowell

Since the return of the Indians to the post don't know of any stock being stolen.

Very little stock running loose around the post only the contractor's stock and that belonging to the Post.

The Indians were coming back and forth from the point where I moved them in the Aryvypa.

I don't know of them having any rancherias except in the Aryvypa.

Judge

I first took command the 2nd or 3rd of April, and the statements I have made have reference to time and events; subsequent to which I do not know of any of the regulations of the conduct of the Indians previous to the 1st of April.

McCaffrey

The Indians were not counted at any time except when rations were issued to them.

The Indians are ranged in bands distributed in families and the families are kept together.

Have no roll or list of names.

The highest number of rations issued to one family have been about 12.

Have no list of the number of grown males. Used to keep a list of the number of men, women and children. Have not done it lately.

Speaking of Massacre I refer to that of the 30th of April last.

There are about 6 chiefs. There is no one chief with supreme control. Eskiminzin has more in his command than Carse. Eskiminzin has 250.

There were 4 ranches raising grain there this year. They have abandoned their ranches because they were within the reservation described by Mr. Colyer.

I know that the U.S. Marshall went to Camp Grant for the arrest of Eskiminzin. I tried for 2 days but could not find him--Eskiminzin. There are no instructions for the Indians to stay in.

Since Mr. Colyer established the reservation they are not required to stay on any particular part of the reservation and there are no instructions to compel them to report--only if they do not report they don't get any rations.

Asencio (Papago) called and sworn

McCaffrey

I am a Papago Indian. I am a Captain. The Papagoes are at war with the Apaches, have so been since I was born. The condition between the Papagoes and the Apaches is the same now as ever.

Never been any peace between them. If I was alone among the Apaches they would kill me. They would do so with any of my tribe we would look for nothing else.

The larger part of the Papagoes live in the vicinity of Santa Rosa. Some live at San Xavier which is a portion of the Papago country.

The Apaches are now and have been always in the habit of stealing stock from us.

When stock has been stolen from us by the Apache, we follow on the trail and try to recover the stock.

The Papagoes usually follow till they find either stock or Apaches. When we follow sometimes we recover the stock and sometimes not.

Rowell

There are not many Apaches at Camp Grant as far as I know. Have never known of the Americans being at Peace with the Apaches.

Gertrude McWard called and sworn says

McCaffrey

In the month of April last I was living at Tucson. I went to live at Camp Grant in July.

I lived there one month.

I was personally acquainted with the wife of Wooster. Knew her well, when she lived in Tucson. I knew her well enough to recognize a portion of her clothing.

I saw some of Mrs. Wooster's clothing after her death.

I saw it at the Aryvypa I mean Camp Grant.

The wife an Apache Indian of the interpreter had the clothing.

It was a marino dress, red stripped, with black silk trimmings.

I saw no other articles of clothing of Mrs. Wooster's there at Camp Grant. Saw no jewelry of Mrs. Wooster's there.

Rowell

I saw this clothing in July of this year.

The interpreter was living at Grant.

The interpreter was said to be a Mexican; he had been a Captive among the Indians. The name of the interpreter is Concepcion.

Concepcion Biella called and sworn

McCaffrey

I was at Camp Grant within a couple of months past. I did some trading with the Indians there. I swapped them a Jackass for a grey mare and saddle.

I got the grey mare and saddle from an Indian don't know who he was.

When I swapped for the grey mare and saddle I received a paper from the Lt. there.

The Paper was left there and I was given a copy to take back to Camp Grant.

The mare was claimed there by a Papago and the authorities took it away from me. The saddle was also claimed and it remained in the Justice's office. (Saddle produced) recognized.

The Indian from whom I got the property was one of those on the reservation. That is all I know.

Fritz Contzen called and sworn

McCaffrey

I know the witness last on the stand.

Saw him in town when he came from Camp Grant with mare and saddle. Did not know the mare. I knew the brand--it had a Papago brand--the Papagoes claimed her and got her. She was a white small mare. I knew the saddle that is the saddle which I see in court.

The man that rode the mail for me had used it for six months. Knew it that way.

The man rode the mail from here to Sasiba Flat.

Last saw the saddle when a man went out with it sometime in Sept. The man was killed about 4 miles from town coming in. I am sure that is the saddle but the stirrup leathers have been renewed.

I am sure that is the saddle the man had when he left here.

Mail Rider was killed by Indians and the mail lost.

Rowell

Know the saddle well by its general appearance--the horn of the saddle had had a new skin on it just previous to its loss.

Satisfied the man was killed by Indians.

Samuel Hughes called and sworn

McCaffrey

I am adjutant General of this Territory.

The duties of that office for the last 8 months have been to receive the arms mark them and reissue them. I commenced marking the arms about the 1st of February last.

I allude to Spencer and Sharpe's carbines and needle muskets. The arms were marked A.T. on the breach--on the left hand side of the stock and under the middle band in the wood.

I have generally issued these arms to every person that was in need of them. Generally reissuing the same arms to the persons that brought them in. Some of these arms were taken by the Indians from Mr. Wooster.

Mr. Blanchard had some taken from him--Mr. Sanders had some taken from him and Mr. Hughes had 3 of these arms taken from him by Indians when Mr. Cook was killed. 3 were taken when Long and McKenzie and others were killed at the San Pedro--3 were taken when McKenney was killed at Camp Grant. One was taken from Brigham when he was killed carrying the mail: one from Mr. Simpson when he was killed with Lt. Cushing: one from the mexican mail carrier that was killed out by the mill. Numbers of others that I can't recollect.

Never issued any guns to the Apaches and there was no other way for them to get arms but from murdered citizens. I keep such track of the guns that I know where they are all except when captured by the Apaches.

Rowell

I estimate about 35 or 40 stand of arms have been taken by the Indians. All the others are accounted for.

The arms have been issued for maybe 2 years.

McCaffrey

I commenced marking the guns about the 1st of February. I know of none being marked before.

C.O. Brown called and sworn

McCaffrey

In the months of January, February, March and April last I resided in Tucson.

I know of meetings during this time being held and I attended them--in regard to the Indians--to try to do something to prevent them from raiding on this country.

Attended meetings in this Court House.

Speeches were made. I don't recollect the speakers in the month of April last. I had conversation with an officer of the U.S. relative to fitting out an expedition against the Indians.

The officer was Mr. Rowell with whom I had some conversation.

It was on or about the 26th day of April.

Mr. Rowell came to my house--I told him I wished to have a talk with him that I wanted some advice--I told him that the Indians had been depredating on the people here for many years--that since the Camp Grant reservation had been established the Indian raids had become bolder and more frequent than ever before. The people of the valley were satisfied that it was the Camp Grant Indians who were committing most of the depredations and the people were satisfied that those were the Indians that were raiding on us: that the people had formed a company of from 150 to 200 men: that their intentions were to go out to Camp Grant and attack the Indians and kill everything in the shape of an Indian that could be found--and that I had been invited to go with the party. I told Mr. Rowell I wanted his advice on the subject: Mr. Rowell said to me that he had lost a great deal by the Indians--as much or more than a great many of those who were going out with the party--and that he would like to see every Indian in the Territory killed and he advised me not to go out with the party but if I could assist them in any way to help the thing along to do it--but not to go out myself--Mr. Rowell said if these people went out there and attacked those Indians that it would create a bigger excitement in Washington than anything that ever had occurred in this country--that this affair would be investigated--and in all probability "I would be called on to prosecute these people" he says--"for the act which they are about now to commit and as you have as much or more than any one that is going out you would be one of the first ones gobbled up"--he said "anything you can do to help this party you do it but my advice to you is to keep out of it and don't go out yourself"--that is about all the conversation I had with Mr. Rowell with regard to it.

Subsequent to that time I have had no particular conversation with Mr. Rowell--I was summoned on the Grand jury and I got Mr. Rowell to get me excused from it.

I was subpoenaed as a witness before the Grand Jury.

Mr. Rowell told me he thought he would want me up before the Grand Jury the next day. I told him he did not want me before the Grand Jury. I did not think he would have much use for me--he said he did not know but he might want me. I told Mr. Rowell then that if I was brought before the Grand Jury that I would probably be asked some questions that I would have to answer in regard to the conversation that took place between me and him on or about the 25th of April.

Mr. Rowell said "I may not want you."

That was all the conversation. I was not called before the Grand Jury.

Rowell

The General topic at these meetings was about the Indians.

I did not understand that the particular object of the organization was to go to Camp Grant.

I did not say that I knew nothing of the killing at Camp Grant in our conversation of my being summoned on the Grand Jury.

I do not recollect of your asking me whether I had heard any particular individuals described in the Camp Grant affair.

Mr. Wm. S. Oury had talked with me in such a way as to give me to understand he had been there.

Judge

I do not think that I communicated this talk I had with Mr. Rowell to any of the parties that went on this expedition.

John Anderson called and sworn

McCaffrey

About the time the Grand Jury was in session I had conversation with Mr. Rowell.

Mr. Rowell asked if I knew of any parties that could give any evidence in this case. I mentioned some names and Capt. Rowell mentioned the name of Mr. Brown as he might give some testimony or information remarking at the same time that "I had kept Mr. Brown out of this trouble by my advice." That was the substance of the conversation as far as Mr. Brown was concerned.

Mr. Rowell called and sworn

McCaffrey

Some time in April prior to the Grant affair Mr. Brown came to me and wanted my advice on some matter.

As he stated he said to the best of my recollection about this the people are trying to organize a party to go against the Indians will you take command of that party if it would be satisfactory.

I told him I could not do so that my business would not allow me to do it. He said that the expedition might strike Camp Grant before it returned. I told him I thought it would be a very dangerous thing to do. That as I understood the matter the Indians were in some way under the protection of the government--I said further that I had no love for the Apache Indians and would like to see them exterminated if we could not have peace without it.

I said further in the same conversation that it was the duty of every good citizen to try and stop these depredations as they could get no protection from the Military: that I would myself and had done all that I could to assist parties going after hostile Indians in the Territory for 8 or 9 years--but that if the expedition tended toward Camp Grant I thought it safer for him not to go. But if it was intended for hostile Indians who had been committing raids and whose trail could be easily followed that I believed in following them--when I came to Tucson in September for the purpose of attending the U.S. District Court and it was generally understood that the government had ordered a prosecution of the parties engaged in the Grant affair Mr. Brown came to me and stated that my advice to him at the time had saved him from having any trouble in this matter and that he was very glad he had talked with me.

I would state that in seeking evidence and consulting Mr. Anderson--who was my substitute--we took the names of nearly all the prominent citizens of the place who were known not to have been connected with the Grant affair personally, Mr. Brown among the number.

It was impossible for us to find any single person in the town who knew any thing about the matter or who could state that they had heard any of the defendants tell them any of the circumstances of that transaction. Several of them were called before the Grand Jury.

I was compelled at last in order to get any evidence to call upon the defendants themselves.

The reason that Mr. Brown was not called before the Grand Jury was because all of the facts were being elicited by some of the defendants themselves who were before the Grand Jury as witnesses.

I would state further that at the time of my conversation with Mr. Brown and at no time afterward until after the affair had occurred did I believe that any attack upon Camp Grant was seriously contemplated by the citizens of the Territory. Nor do I now believe that such was the intention when the meetings were held. I had heard rumors for a month or more that such an attempt would be made.

Sergt. J.W. Collough called and sworn

McCaffrey

I am a Sergt. in the U.S. Army been Sergt. about 3 years.

I was not acquainted with Mr. Brown a mail rider--don't know when he was killed.

I know of some soldiers of my acquaintance being killed while with the mail.

It was last year.

I know the breach loaders that Moore and Peabody had can't recollect the numbers.

Think one number was 220.

I think I have seen some of those guns since the soldiers were killed. To the best of my knowledge saw them the guns at Camp Grant sometime this year.

These were in the possession of Indians there. Carse had one of the guns--another Indian had the other.

Judge

That was a breach loading musket such as our army now uses.

Rowell

I think it was in April when I saw these guns in the hands of the Indians.

It might have been six months before that the soldiers were killed.

Mr. Hopkins called and sworn

McCaffrey

I know of some meetings having been held in Tucson in the early part of this year to take into consideration Indian affairs.

I was appointed member of a committee at one of these meetings. Was on two committees. 1st one was to devise means of procedure against the Indians. The other was to get General Stoneman's cooperation.

On the latter committee were Messrs. Mowry, DeLong, Bennett and Oury--W.S. Oury. They waited on General Stoneman.

He promised no additional assistance.

Someone speaking of the depredations committed in the vicinity of Tucson and that they had reason to believe they were made by Indians from Camp Grant. Some one said what would be the consequence provided the trails were followed to Camp Grant if the parties in pursuit should catch and kill those Indians. He General Stoneman said he thought it would facilitate the final result but he would have to follow and capture those who did it.

His manner of saying it left the impression on my mind that he would do it purely as a matter of duty but that privately he would not condemn the pursuit of hostile Indians by citizens.

I know that this was the impression left on the minds of the committee.

I have frequently communicated this as my impression.

I have talked with Lt. Whitman relative to Grant affair since. He used expressions that left impressions on my mind. One relation that he claimed to stand in to the Indians was that of a lawyer to his clients

In regard to his report, I charged him with suppressing the truth.

He said in effect he was not bound to explain both sides of the question.

The United States vs. Sidney R. DeLong et al.

Monday December 11th 1871

Prosecution opened

Oscar Buckalew called and sworn

W.S. Oury in place of McCaffrey

I have been present at meetings in this place on Indian subjects, have been present at some at which Mr. Rowell was present.

Mr. Rowell made a speech at one of those meetings.

The last of January or 1st of February of this year I heard him make a long speech in favor of raising volunteers to carry on a war against the hostile Apache.

That is the substance of his speech as far as I remember.

He made no reference to any particular campaign as far as I remember.

I remember that reference was made to the report of General Stoneman by Mr. Rowell.

The ground taken was that the assistance to be expected from General Stoneman would be nothing.

He, Mr. Rowell, urged action to be taken by the citizens upon the Indian trouble--to raise companies and make war upon the Apache.

Rowell

My impression is that the speech Mr. Rowell made at the meeting was after the adjournment of the Legislature--never heard Mr. Rowell make but one speech to the best of my recollection.

I think Mr. DeLong or Anderson was chairman of that meeting.

The ground I remember that Mr. Rowell took was that the report of General Stoneman was false.

I think I remember remarks being made that that report ought to be counteracted--it was said measures should be taken to prove that that report was false.

I know that a committee was appointed--evidence was gathered, pamphlet published and circulated on the subject.

McCaffrey

Mr. Wasson called and sworn

I have a copy of the report of General Stoneman of October 31st 1870.

I requested this from Washington from Mr. McCormick or someone else. I do not distinctly remember.

I have not the original now.

I think it came under Mr. McCormick's frank.

(Verified copy of General Stoneman's report of October 31st 1870 offered and admitted)

I have a true copy of an order of Vincent Colyer--verified by the name of Capt. Frank Stanwood relative to Indians at Camp Grant.

(The true copy dated Camp Grant A.T. September 18th 1871 offered and admitted as evidence)

I am Surveyor-General of the U.S. service territory of Arizona.

I have a certified tracing of the Plat of Camp Grant reservation--(Plat presented). Am not allowed to make surveys on the ground described in Plat of that reservations.

(The Plat offered in evidence by counsel for defense)

I am not instructed particularly where but where not I am to make surveys in the territory.

I have advices from Washington in relation to Camps Grant and other reservations up to November 16th or 17th, 1871.

(Plat admitted)

McCaffrey

Governor Safford called and sworn

In this Territory I hold the position of Governor.

I have in the last year and a half travelled in various portions of the Territory.

I have had interviews with the Apaches with the object of finding out their ideas of peace; whether they were in good faith and whether they desired to be at peace or not and whether they had any complaints to make.

The Indians with whom I had these interviews were at Camps Grant and Goodwin.

I had conversations with those at Goodwin in May 1870.

The day I had conversation with those I should suppose there were 400 or 500 men, women and children.

I had conversation with those at Apache numbering about 500 a few days later.

They talked with me as though they wanted peace--they talked about their former conduct.

One chief spoke of the good old times when they could raid with safety but that the danger now made it to their interest to make and keep peace.

Spoke of it merely as a matter of interest and with no regret for past crimes.

He was now old and tired of war and went to bed at night not knowing that he would be alive in the morning.

I had conversation with others, the substance was pretty much the same. One Indian up near the Little Colorado--I asked if he was willing to make common cause with us: make our enemies his--hesitated and finally said that his tribe was intermixed with the others, their interests the same, and he could not join with whites.

I do not know his name.

The Indians I speak of seemed to be under no restraint whatever. On my return to Goodwin I learned that an Indian chief named Chiquito-Capitan had been in from the Pinal Mountains and desired peace--Col. Pollock stated that he was one of the leading chiefs of that section of country and considered it an important event--I subsequently learned that upon leaving the post he, the same chief, stole a burro and joined the war party that took the train between here and Grant at the time that Kennedy and Israel were killed.

Lt. Cushing informed me that between the time that the Indian with this burro joined the trail, there had been a rain, the Indian taking the trail subsequently, and that he would have been unable to follow the trail had it not been for the fresh track of the burro.

The Indians at Goodwin were in camp within two or three hundred yards of the camp but could come or go at will.

There seemed to be no lines and no guard of any description.

I had a conversation with Col. Pollock in which speaking of the probability of them having raided on settlers--he said that some of those that come in were good Indians but that a portion of them did undoubtedly more or less raid on the citizens.

Maj. Smith was in command at Apache when I was there. Col. Green was the appointed commander but Maj. Smith was acting.

The Indians at Camp Apache were living all over the country.

They were unrestrained and unlimited.

The country is now and has been very unsafe.

I have travelled with armed parties mostly, sometimes travelled alone by slipping through the more dangerous places at night--never travelled alone when I could avoid it.

I consider it safe nowhere in the Territory to travel alone except on some parts of the Colorado--perhaps down towards Yuma and some places on the Gila--at the present time and for the last 2 years.

There were perhaps more depredations a few months just previous to the last of October 1870 than at any other time.

The universal desire of the citizens is to have peace.

Have had the best opportunities of knowing; have talked with nearly every man in the territory.

I think there is a strong hatred among the people against the Apache arising from a long series of outrages and tortures.

Have had opportunities to notice farmers conducting their farming operations, they either carry their arms with them or have them convenient to be reached.

Freighters, herders and miners all go armed and carry their arms with them everywhere.

There has not appeared any beneficial results since Mr. Colyer visited the territory.

I called upon General Thomas when he was in command of the Divisions of the Pacific for arms, ammunition and rations--I also called upon the Secretary of War for arms and ammunition.

General Thomas referred my request to the Gen. of the Army, General Sherman--he replied authorizing the issue of arms, ammunition and rations to all citizens who wished to fight against hostile Indians under military officers.

The Secretary of War responded by forwarding 744 stand of arms at different times and also a large quantity of ammunition for arming citizens.

The arms have been issued to citizens under the Adjt. General of the Territory and his assistants.

I know of arms, ammunition and rations having been issued to citizens in accordance with order of General Sherman.

In August 1870 I raised a company and went out under the command of the military authorities, drawing arms, ammunition and rations in accordance with the order of General Sherman.

We were under the orders of the military officer that accompanied us. Officer with us all the time.

There were U.S. officers present at the meetings to organize the expedition in August 1870.

Col. Dunkleberger, Col. Lee, and Lt. Cushing.

Rowell

I was at Camp Apache the last day of May and left the 1st of June 1870.

While there I was under the impression (don't know whether I expressed it or not) that those Indians might be made peaceable.

Made no special examination how the Indians were fed.

Think Mr. Colyer was here about the 12th of September.

I presume there is danger on the roads from others than Indians.

I know of depredations being committed between here and Sonora by outlaws.

There is some danger in travel besides that from Indians.

I should not have much fear of other dangers--but like all new countries there is danger to a certain extent from outlaws.

My whole trip occupied something over a month.

3 days at Camp Apache, 3 days and nights at Goodwin.

Col. Pollock at Goodwin seemed to be favorably inclined toward the Indians.

Upon questioning him closely as to whether they committed depredations he could not say certainly, but that every Indian whom he could keep at the post he kept from raiding.

Maj. Smith at Camp Apache said they the Indians there had only been in a few days and had not much experience with them.

They had been sometime at Goodwin.

From conversation and observation with the Indians they expressed no fear nor suspicion. Seemed to accept the situation as it was and made no comments on it.

McCaffrey

Lt. J.G. Burke called and sworn.

I am 2nd Lt. in 3rd U.S. Cavalry.

I crossed the Arizona line on the 3rd or 4th day March 1870. Been here constantly since.

Have had ample opportunity to observe Indian affairs in southern Arizona.

As far as the Indians are concerned they are in a constant state of war and depredation upon the whites.

Since I have been here there has been no actual peace. The Indians at Camp Apache professed to be at peace but I know of some of them committing depredations.

I consider the peace a farce.

I consider it to be no safer now than it has been for the last year and a half in the territory.

From the time I arrived here to the 1st of April last the condition of affairs was as I have described it.

Between the 1st of February and the last of April of this year I know of one case of depredation of the Indians in the vicinity of Camp Grant.

About the 15th of April Lt. Cushing commanding my company was notified that Indians had run off stock from the vicinity of San Xavier and citizens were about starting after them.

Lt. Cushing had about 20 of the troop go with them the citizens. I accompanied them. We started out through the Rillito pass to see if we could not get ahead of them on the trail--the Indians took the right hand pass--there are two passes--and the citizens caught up to them at the extremity of the right hand pass.

Killed one of them and recaptured the stock.

There were only three Indians in the party.

One was killed and the others escaped.

We did not pursue them.

That is the only affair I know of.

The trail we were following when we found the Indians runs right to Camp Grant.

I know of no other depredations.

Rowell

We saw the tracks of the Indians we were following and the stock--did not overtake the Indians.

I was with the expedition that went out with Gov. Safford.

The result of the last expedition (Gov. Safford's) was that the Indians left this portion of the country.

We found 2 skulls and a scalp where they had been encamped.

The mail bags we found in their rancheria--this was in September 1870.

I mean to say that the trail we followed was the one used by the Indians in going to Camp Grant. It divides in two--one comes out about 15, the other about 11 miles above Camp Grant. There was no evidence of the Indians having left the trail, and they would naturally come out at the Aryvypa, Camp Grant.

McCaffrey

Dr. H. K. Durrand called and sworn.

I only remember of one batch of Apache captives that was at Camp Lowell in 1869--they were provided straw for bedding, good food and medical attention.

Some of these captives were prisoners--I think two died--2 or 3 others escaped.

One little boy was turned over to me

I have him now, have pledged myself for his kind treatment.

He has been well treated by me, as much so as if he was my own child.

He has been perfectly contented with us, nothing would alarm him so much as to be told he was to be sent back to the Apaches.

He has never evidenced any desire to go back to the Apache while in my charge.

When delivered to me he was about 7 or 8 years of age.

I don't remember of any other captive in the hands of whites.

Rowell

I have been kind to him and he has reciprocated it.

He appears to have as much intelligence as any white child.

Learns easily.

If he is a type of the Apaches, there would be no difficulty in making intelligent men of the Apaches.

McCaffrey

Dr. Handy called and sworn.

Been about 5 years in the Territory.

Have had opportunities of noticing the Indians on the reservations.

At Camp Apache, Camp Goodwin and Camp Grant.

I speak the Apache language sufficiently to make myself understood by them.

The understanding of the Indians at Camp Grant was that they were to be fed and treated kindly at the post and were to have all they wanted.

They were given to understand this.

Their understanding with the officers was somewhat indefinite.

It was an inducement held out to them that the officers had written to Washington and were going to get them blankets and horses and cattle and set them up in fine style but it was never realized.

They did not consider themselves bound to remain where they were: they considered themselves independent and could go where they wanted--there were promises exacted from them to remain but they left when they wanted.

Have seen some of the same Indians at Goodwin and Apaches that I saw at Camp Grant.

I have seen nearly all at Goodwin that were at Camp Grant when peace was first made with them, excepting some Tontos.

They had been at Goodwin under conditions much the same as those they were under at Camp Grant.

They left Goodwin every year as soon as the warm weather commenced without permission and sometimes would commit depredations, sacking houses etc., right at the post.

I know Capitan Chiquito at Camp Grant; have seen him at Goodwin, always some of his band at Goodwin.

Don't know whether Chiquito was at Camp Grant previous to the 30th of April last.

These Indians at Camp Grant understood that they were to be at peace with the whites and Mexicans, that they were not to go into Sonora ever, that they were to get leave when they wished to leave the reservation.

I never heard the Papagos and Pimas named in treaty stipulations with the Apaches.

I know what the treaty stipulations were with the Indians during the time I have been in the territory.

I do know of Indians that I saw at Camp Grant having previously left at Goodwin on raids upon whites and while they were under treaty stipulations.

Judge

I have been brought in contact with 9 sub-tribes of the Apaches acknowledging connection with the Apaches, viz.--commencing on the south is Cochise's tribe-- the next to the north is the Rio Bonito tribe--the third are the White Mountain or Coyotero Indians--west of those are the Pedro's Indians--then Miguel's tribe, fifth--then comes the tribe known as the Tierra Colorada tribe--then below that are two sub-divisions of the Pinals--both north of the Gila--the ninth is the tribe of the Aryvypa, formerly two now united into one.

The Indians quartered in the neighborhood of Camp Grant are Apaches.

Juror

They were living in the Aryvypa Canon when I was there.

Hostile Indians might have been living there without the officers knowing it--they might have brought stolen stock into that place and the officers of the post have known nothing about it.

The families of such hostile Indians might have obtained rations and the officers have not have known it.

Judge

I have known of good Indians at peace having been made the feeders of hostile Indians who made no professions of peace--at Goodwin and Camp Grant both.

I know of stuff being packed from Goodwin almost daily to the Turnbull mountains where there were hostile Indians and on 3 occasions when camps have been jumped there, I have found the Goodwin stuff in the hostile camp.

The thing was done here daily and no attempt was made to conceal it. I don't remember of any of these instances particularly at Camp Grant.

I remember more distinctly of Goodwin and Camp Apache, but these Indians were all the same at the 3 posts, intermarried and friendly.

I know of ammunition being furnished by friendly to hostile Indians at Goodwin and Apache and traded with them for horses etc.

At both Goodwin and Apache I know that officers and U.S. service men traded ammunition to those friendly Indians.

The same was done by citizen teamsters, as I was shown by the Indians the ammunition traded to them by teamsters.

Col. Green was one of the officers that traded ammunition.

I heard General Stoneman order ammunition to be issued to the Indians--he made this order probably in the summer of 1870.

Col. Hunt and Capt. Barry traded ammunition with these Indians.

They traded for game principally; also works of art, moccasins, etc., but mostly for game--sometimes for a buffalo robe, buckskins, etc.

I have seen Col. Hunt pour from his powder flack into an Indian's breach-clout probably half a pound of powder and ask him if he wanted more in payment for a turkey. I have seen Col. Green trade copper cartridges for a turkey--looked like a hat full of cartridges.

Have seen Capt. Barry trade ammunition for game--and there was a standing order that the post interpreter should give out 5 to 10 rounds of ammunition for each turkey brought in for the officers' mess. Col. Green made this order and it was known all around.

The interpreters name was Alex Dodson, commonly known as Smart Alex.

There were hostile Indians in there (at Camp Apache) while this was being done all the time, and they were planning raids all the time I was there.

I know of Indians who received ammunition daily from officers and soldiers absenting themselves from the post and on their return would bring back stock and I have reported it to Col. Green, the commander of the post, and another time I reported to Maj. Perry of a similar case, and I could frequently have reported similar cases but found no notice taken of it. The Indians would come in my quarters and report the raids they had been on--the last raid that was made in Camp Apache some months since was planned while I was there and I had reported it to Col. Green, commanding officer and he laughed at it.

During the time this ammunition was being issued to Indians, Cochise and members of his band were in there occasionally.

Rowell

I was at Camp Apache about a year--through the year 1870--I was at Goodwin about 3 years prior to 1870--about a year at Camp Grant in 1866.

My statements relative to affairs at Camp Grant were only as to when I was there in 1866.

About the numbers in the whole 9 tribes, is from 5000 to 7000 men, women and children.

Prior to General Stoneman's order it was not unusual there to trade ammunition with these Indians.

McCaffrey

Leopoldo Carrillo recalled.

I have seen Apache captives in the hands of white men here in this territory and know how they are treated.

The treatment is kind, generally so.

These captives are contented and do not desire to return to the Apaches. All I have seen will cry if they are told they are to be sent back.

I know of ten cases in this town--many of them will even deny that they are Apaches.

Rowell

Some of these captive children are of those taken at Camp Grant.

I do not know that these captives are articles of sale.

Those that I know of have been obtained from their captors by exchange but not actually bargain and sale.

The citizens have obtained these captives from their captors more as the object of charity and given them a Christian education but they are not treated as slaves.

They are permitted to leave and go where they choose when of age or when they come to an age of understanding.

McCaffrey

Mr. Lee recalled.

I know of 8 or 10 captives (Apaches) taken 5 or 6 years ago--the Indian agent turned them over to the citizens in connection with the U.S. Marshal and they have usually been treated as the rest of the family--some of them probably had to work harder than others but been well cared for and received ordinary instruction, such as those received with whom they are brought into contact.

The party that afterward arrived in the vicinity of Aryvypa Canon did not all start together. I left with the party that left here and we were joined by the party of Indians on the river.

I saw the arms the Papagos had--some muskets--some needle guns, generally all long arms and some few pistols.

They had some knives.

I believe I saw 2 Indians with bows and arrows.

I know of 2 or 3 chiefs of the Papagos in the vicinity of San Xavier.

I know the chief that went in command of them to Grant on the 30th of April last.

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